[sirgarg]

I found one copy of the book listed on a well known online shop, and went to my local library to see if they had it, after a search they came up with nothing at all, so I mentioned the book on sale, they bought it and its now in my possession of which I intend to keep renewing until I have researched it.

After a week I have noticed in particular on p247 with re: to Deaf/deaf distinction (less demands) the opinion emphasises on clear distinctions of classification..so therefor unequals us in status....and divides us to begin with.
I don't feel that we are forced to perform like pantomime clowns or appear chimp like at a tea party..but its no wonder we sometimes clash over old rope.

This book is good as its historical record, and opinion of a difficult time...shame its a rarity people are hanging on to their copies.

I have a number of questions as a result of reading this book, that is in effect 10 years old...is it worth a discussion for educations sake..have things improved or are we still in dark times.....

[Legsmaniac]

A good question, my learned friend. I have placed an order at my own local library for said book and I'll be able to better comment once I have received and read it. However, without having read it yet, I have already formed some of my own views and opinions based on the facts I have read online and reports/views from other people who have read it.

Like you say, for one thing, it's 10 years old. And for another thing, it's written by one person and is therefore the opinions of that one person.

[Tim B]

Like you say, for one thing, it's 10 years old. And for another thing, it's written by one person and is therefore the opinions of that one person.

But his opinion is backed up by independent parties. For example, on pages 179-181 inclusive, he quotes the resignation letter of James Toohill, who stated:

"I do not believe that RNID is a place in which to do a honourable days work, and is unlikely to be for some time."

I certainly do not not think that they have improved ever since, I think they have got worse.

Anyway, I agree with what sirgarg says about the distinctions; that was one of the parts of the book that I did not agree with. However it should not detract from the central theme of the book.

This post has been edited by Tim B: Mar 10 2010, 04:19 PM

[MM.]

A good question, my learned friend. I have placed an order at my own local library for said book and I'll be able to better comment once I have received and read it. However, without having read it yet, I have already formed some of my own views and opinions based on the facts I have read online and reports/views from other people who have read it.

Like you say, for one thing, it's 10 years old. And for another thing, it's written by one person and is therefore the opinions of that one person.

Not just one person, the ONLY DEAF person ever as CEO at the RNID, so it has some relevance. What we all wanted is the RNID response to it, but we never got it. When the RNID cut you dead, you ARE dead, believe it... as you are showing some interested in deaf written stuff (If only to argue the toss with others lol), then for real and truly obscure reading in the deaf area I recommend 'Understanding Deafhood' (DON'T Pay for a copy, it only encourages him).... Your challenge should you choose to accept it, is to make ANY sense of it past page 2....... (Or I'll sell you my copy for £25)....I had intend to line the budgie cage with it but....if you want to know where the D,d thing (Big decibel little decibel), is worshipped and the terminology of Audism gathered apace, this is the area to blame.

[sirgarg]

Anyway, I agree with what sirgarg says about the distinctions; that was one of the parts of the book that I did not agree with. However it should not detract from the central theme of the book.

For quite a while people whom, in my opinion either agree or disagree mention the book and reccomend that I read it, and Its one of those that I think if you have an interest and want it from a pretty reliable source in this case Mr Alker himself, in his words....then why not!

What he has to say is probably a fair account as its neither for or against the people, he was seen as the new messiah of the RNID for the people, and expectations were high. He says himself that the establishment is far bigger, and capital gain over welfare is dominant.

I don't claim to be clear about all the diversity and complexicity of the issues, as ten years ago and beyond I was younger and living in a carefree time, and what was going on was just a bunch of radical deafies campaigning with banners and lying under buses.

I know that there are others who are far more learned in the history, and have took the time and effort to gain knowledge, I've read a lot of literature, seen the responses on various blogs and forums and I know a few of those who speak a lot of sense...and validate the thinking.

Some though have taken this book seen a darker side, and given it bible status as the ultimate anti-RNID manual...Mr Alker didn't have this in mind I'm sure, he merely wished to set the record straight and in my interpretation wanted it to become a focus on the people, an awareness of the corupt and in his words unjust...

Despite the memebership of this group, there is an average in my estimation, Tony might have the figures, many guests who wander through here and read the "in" topics...an Ideal forum to promote change and give opinion if desired...

I know there have been some changes in the last 10 years, but what impact has it had on our lives, in the way we think...today?

[Legsmaniac]

Good post, sirgarg! Those were already my feelings on the book and how the book seems to have been taken erroneously as gospel by the dark side too.

[sirgarg]

I recommend 'Understanding Deafhood' (DON'T Pay for a copy, it only encourages him).... Your challenge should you choose to accept it, is to make ANY sense of it past page 2....... (Or I'll sell you my copy for £25)....I had intend to line the budgie cage with it but....if you want to know where the D,d thing (Big decibel little decibel), is worshipped and the terminology of Audism gathered apace, this is the area to blame.

You refer to "Understanding Deaf Culture: In Search of Deafhood." by Dr Patrick Ladd

He looks at the spiritual side of culture, and I don't see a problem with his analogy, those who are born Deaf/deaf are not in need of a cure, many of an earlier generation were forced into oralism and the hearing way of the world, like making an Orange into an Elephant...lol your analogy...apologies!!!

[sirgarg]

Like you say, for one thing, it's 10 years old. And for another thing, it's written by one person and is therefore the opinions of that one person.

Well my learned friend, its quite wholesome in element, and Mr Alker does have a damn good following from both ends of Featherstone St ..his opinions do have supportive evidence.

Its a very sought after book, and if the library start moaning about my keeping it long term, I will say its lost..and pay for it! They couldn't find it when i picked it up..and someone commented " Anybody know what happened to that deaf book?"...Long way to go as far as awareness goes...

This post has been edited by sirgarg: Mar 10 2010, 07:11 PM

[MM.]

I recommend 'Understanding Deafhood' (DON'T Pay for a copy, it only encourages him).... Your challenge should you choose to accept it, is to make ANY sense of it past page 2....... (Or I'll sell you my copy for £25)....I had intend to line the budgie cage with it but....if you want to know where the D,d thing (Big decibel little decibel), is worshipped and the terminology of Audism gathered apace, this is the area to blame.

You refer to "Understanding Deaf Culture: In Search of Deafhood." by Dr Patrick Ladd

He looks at the spiritual side of culture, and I don't see a problem with his analogy, those who are born Deaf/deaf are not in need of a cure, many of an earlier generation were forced into oralism and the hearing way of the world, like making an Orange into an Elephant...lol your analogy...apologies!!!

Is there a cure for deafhood ? being British is pretty effective, few if any of US have taken this book to heart, it seems to tap into the American area rather than ours, mainly because isms, and ologies are what they think, makes them appear more 'academic'. Did not SEE HEAR conduct a 'survey' ? asking deaf people here "Have you heard of Audism or understanding deafhood ?" and nobody knew what they were talking about. As an small aside his book was NOT about the spiritual side of deaf culture, deafness is a sensory loss, not a religion, it was about 'travelling the road' of being deaf to accepting what you are, (A sort of signed version written in text, of Pilgrim's progress or something), at least he said that, but the book rapidly polarised in view, and deteriorated into digs at CI's oralism, acquired deaf, the HoH and everyone not from the deaf clubs or deaf schools. It appealed to those who feel everyone is against them or are Isolated. It was blatantly aspiring to a situation that hasn't existed for the last 25 years. CI's have destroyed the basis of it. They are BORG culture will be assimilated.

The supreme irony, was that Americans were hopelessly unable to follow written academic text, so gave up and created their own version of deafhood, mostly based on paranoia.... everyone wants sign language and deaf erased from the planet... then had to create 'workshops' so the more academic deaf people could explain what the book was about... It can only happen in America we wouldn't waste our time here. 360 odd pages of ramblings... with occasional historical input.

This post has been edited by MM.: Mar 10 2010, 07:22 PM

[sirgarg]

As an small aside his book was NOT about the spiritual side of deaf culture, deafness is a sensory loss, not a religion, it was about 'travelling the road' of being deaf to accepting what you are,

I was born hearing, so they say! as if it matters?...deafened from Measles, spiritually I feel and am therefor deaf...Mr Alker talks early on about classification and is quite clear about the distinctions and misconceptions...he talks about the "grey area" to which I assume you take your blog name from "The Rim" (for those who don't know what they are)...is this fair?

If this is true, your sense of belonging to social order classified, in the order of deafydom, as laid down by the prophet Alker, will affect your spirit.

CI's in my opinion are personal choice if offered, its not compulsary...hearing parents will want the best opportunity for their deaf children, like parents did years ago. When they sent their children away for Oralism conditioning...
Dr Ladd is obviously against such, and I supose it is cyborgism...its also opportunity for a better education for the future generation, time will tell?

[Legsmaniac]

CI's in my opinion are personal choice if offered, its not compulsary...hearing parents will want the best opportunity for their deaf children, like parents did years ago. When they sent their children away for Oralism conditioning...
Dr Ladd is obviously against such, and I supose it is cyborgism...its also opportunity for a better education for the future generation, time will tell?

It is indeed personal choice, as are hearing aids and many deaf chose not to wear them despite the fact they could benefit from them.  I don't consider it any more "cyborgism" than having a hip replacement or a pacemaker fitted or indeed any of the many weird and wonderful things they can do now.  Technology isn't limited to the deaf.


LOL @ "prophet Alker".  Good one.  Must remember that. 

This post has been edited by Legsmaniac: Mar 10 2010, 08:03 PM

[sirgarg]

LOL @ "prophet Alker".  Good one.  Must remember that. 

Apologies I do not intend to mock Mr Alker, I am a great supporter...it was a metaphor

[MM.]

As an small aside his book was NOT about the spiritual side of deaf culture, deafness is a sensory loss, not a religion, it was about 'travelling the road' of being deaf to accepting what you are,

I was born hearing, so they say! as if it matters?...deafened from Measles, spiritually I feel and am therefor deaf...Mr Alker talks early on about classification and is quite clear about the distinctions and misconceptions...he talks about the "grey area" to which I assume you take your blog name from "The Rim" (for those who don't know what they are)...is this fair?

If this is true, your sense of belonging to social order classified, in the order of deafydom, as laid down by the prophet Alker, will affect your spirit.

CI's in my opinion are personal choice if offered, its not compulsary...hearing parents will want the best opportunity for their deaf children, like parents did years ago. When they sent their children away for Oralism conditioning...
Dr Ladd is obviously against such, and I supose it is cyborgism...its also opportunity for a better education for the future generation, time will tell?

I'm no acolyte of Mr Alker ! My stance is entirely supportive of CI's and hearing aids, and genetic interventions as choice, as it is against making deaf 'hoodies' out of us. In the respect I saw Mr Alker as a 'deaf' person and I was deaf too, that is the only 'connection' of course that means we are both unable to hear, there the connections cease, I allude nothing to deaf culture as I came and still am part of the hearing one despite being deaf, there is no 'journey' to make except maybe to return to my status quo based on hearing again. The irony of understanding deafhood is it is based on telling deaf they are deaf, and to accept that status quo as a 'norm', which they already know. In reality any 'journey' to deaf nirvana would be better aimed at those who acquire it, not those already deaf who are quite aware of what it means to be a deaf person already. Ladd suggests they are a dispirited sector under siege from mainstream, want them all cured, implanted against their will, aka he wants them as martyrs, to appeal to those who find being deaf hard. There are always sectors that feel this way. IN part he mocks those who find being deaf very difficult to manage and cope with, so attacks the view of disablement that way in them, suggesting born deaf and those from deaf school backgrounds are all happy bunnies with no issue and everyone else is a pain in the bum. Mostly he suggests isolating this sector like before in the glory days of when all deaf attended deaf schools and their culture thrived, using the past as the way 'forward' again to a global deaf community. And they say I am out of date... No-one realistically sees any future in deaf schooling. Around 2001 deaf clubs were closing at the rate of 1 every week, deaf schools 20 a year.. Today I think there are just 27 out of 400 the last century. Mr Ladd is 25 years too late with his book, not that he is bothered, he is doing a Tony Blair, touring America on the talk circuit and coining it... and lecturing to the already converted in Bristol.

As I am aware deafhood has never entered the mainstream of British deaf awareness on any level.

This post has been edited by MM.: Mar 11 2010, 10:34 AM